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6.1MUNGOREPORTtheStatement of Significance of the Willandra Lakes World Heritage Area toAboriginal People of Western New South Walesstatements contributed between 1985 and 1991update to 2017production and editorial content by Western Heritage GroupCHAPTER 6ABORIGINAL PERSPECTIVES ON ARCHAEOLOGYIN THE WILLANDRA LAKES WORLD HERITAGE AREA6.26.3ABORIGINAL PERSPECTIVES ON ARCHAEOLOGYIN THE WILLANDRA LAKES WORLD HERITAGE AREAChapter 6You can’t let your past be destroyed. What I always say to people is that if you want to build for the future, you need a past, because the future comes out of the past.Johnny Quayle (Wilcannia,1990)ContentsCultural values and experiences that affect beliefs and opinionsAboriginal values and issues with archaeologyPoints of mass agreement about the custodianship of human remains and cultural property- Includes discussion of the ‘hot topic’ (1985-91) of the return of the Mungo remainsVaried opinion on some questions about human remains in the willandra lakes- Includes discussion of the ‘hot topic’ (1985-91) of the proposed vault at MungoContentsCultural values and experiences that affect beliefs and opinionsAboriginal values and issues with archaeologyPoints of mass agreement about the custodianship of human remains and cultural property- Includes discussion of the ‘hot topic’ (1985-91) of the return of the Mungo remainsVaried opinion on some questions about human remains in the willandra lakes- Includes discussion of the ‘hot topic’ (1985-91) of the proposed vault at Mungo6.46.5CULTURAL VALUES AND EXPERIENCES THAT AFFECT BELIEFS AND OPINIONSI don’t want to say too much, because I’m waiting to hear what Aunty Alice Kelly says, see? She’s the main one on Mungo.Arthur Lawson (Dareton, 1985)I’m just wondering would some people be a little closer than I? I feel I’d like to hear their opinion about this. I feel that there should or could be other Aboriginal people that would have more say about the actual doings and findings [of ancient human remains] at Mungo.Bes Murray (Yanga station via Balranald, 1985)I wouldn’t want to say anything that Aunty Liza Kennedy thought was wrongMyrtle McCormack (Ivanhoe, 1985)Recording beliefs and opinions about the care of ancient human skeletal remains in the Willandra Lakes area had to be a very gradual process. Many people wanted time to think about such an important issue. Although Aboriginal people of this region had long been aware of the destruction of graves, before the mid 1980s they had rarely been involved in formal discussions about the scientific study of ancient human remains. Neither had there been much discussion about how that study relates to Aboriginal law, spirituality and cultural values.THE CULTURAL VALUE OF DEFERENCEAlthough Aboriginal people have strong beliefs and feelings about the respect due to the remains of their ancestors, many were cautious about having their beliefs and feelings recorded before proper deference had been observed. Even quite senior people wanted to hear what was said by their older relations or by people more experienced in the interpretation of Aboriginal law, before contributing their own thoughts. This deference is evident throughout this Statement of Significance. Note: ‘Archaeology’ is the study of the human past, using the things left behind.‘Physical anthropology’ is the study of human body parts, especially the skeletal remains. Most people in this Statement of Significance use the term ‘archaeology’ to include ‘physical anthropology.’6.66.7They should give us more time to think about it and discuss it, and make our decisions after that. Because I think that this is a very important issue. Clarrie Mitchell (Dareton, 1986) It’s the same as when National Parks and Wildlife had what they called an Interim Sites Committee. Some of the files are so thick, it might take an archaeologist six months to compile them - and they’ll come along with a stack of those files and say to us Aboriginal people: “You’ve got half a day to go through them and give your approval!”They’d recommend, say, the destruction of a site, and expect you to go along with it! You’re more or less put there as a rubber stamp for the Minister, to say it’s been destroyed with the Aboriginal people’s consent!Something like that is happening in this matter of the study and return of the ancient human remains at Mungo. We don’t have to put up with that sort of pressure.We’re not just making decisions about these human remains for ourselves. All Aboriginal people all over Australia will be watching us to see what decisions we make about this. We have to take time and make sure we make the right decisions.William Bates (Broken Hill, 1986)It’s no longer true in today’s situation that older people automatically have the last say. Things have changed, and some old people have removed themselves from involvement in the political area over the years, and so are out of touch with some things going on today, and therefore they depend on the younger people who are more involved with the politics of the white world.The right approach today is for younger people to sit down for days and days and just listen carefully while the old people speak and put their views. Then, after they’ve listened to everything the old people have to say, the younger people explain the other factors that have to be considered in a complex situation. Younger people don’t just automatically agree with the old people, but they should listen to them carefully, then the old people respect them. And by listening, the younger people are showing that traditional deference to the older people.In this Statement of Significance, you have an example of this. Where the young people disagree with the old people, they don’t row with them, they listen and then put their own point of view.Barbara Flick (Wilcannia, 1991)We’re used to having time, listening to the old people, what they say. We’re not used to this way.Kay Shepherd (Dareton, 1985)THE CULTURAL VALUE OF TAKING TIME TO CONSIDERThrough this consultation, people in widely separated towns could start exchanging ideas and information about the issues involved. It was only after the thoughts and beliefs of the most senior or more politically experienced people were written down for others to read and think about, that younger or less politically experienced people began to express their own ideas more freely. Most people felt the government time frame for this consultation (about eighteen months) was far too short for decisions on important issues:6.86.9Years ago, I saw white people removing something from a burial site. I didn’t see what they took but I was still upset about it. They had no business to go anywhere near it. But at the time I didn’t feel I had any power to stop them.Later on, I heard about the Murray Black collection of Aboriginal remains and I wondered if those people were collecting our people’s remains for that.I still feel upset and angry about what I saw, and how I couldn’t do anything to stop them. Alice Kelly (Balranald, 1985)When they put the road from Wilcannia through to Menindee on the east side of the Darling, they were going to put it straight across a sandhill just outside Wilcannia. I told them to take the road over to the side, not straight across the sandhill where there was a lot of burials. I talked to some of our old people about it, and they said: “We’ll back you up.” But the Shire said it would get flooded over on that side. They totally ignored what we said.And that’s something I’m very angry with the Shire of Central Darling about - that they ignored us, and drove straight over the graves of our ancestors.Johnny Quayle (Wilcannia, 1985)I don’t think it’s right to dig up human remains, and I don’t think it’s right to put roads over them either. There was one here at Menindee, and we had a job stopping them.Loraine King,(Menindee, 1986)Like an old blackfellas’ tree, it was out of Yeoval. It was all carved all round with kangaroos and that. They [white people] took it away. No good me fighting for it, just one. Nothing I could do by myself.They reckon blackfellas got no say, but I reckon they should have.Jack Melrose, (Rankins Springs, 1985)Western Regional Aboriginal Land Council rejected the government time frame for this consultation, and continued to consult with people on these important issues.After beliefs and opinions were recorded individually or in small groups, Western Regional Aboriginal Land Council organised some weekend gatherings at Mungo so that a large number of people from around the region could meet and discuss the key issues. A regional Aboriginal ‘position’ on the management of Lake Mungo and the treatment of ancient human remains was emerging. This process continued until Regional Land Councils lost their powers in 1992 due to the Greiner Government’s hostile amendments to the NSW Aboriginal Land Rights Act.THE EXPERIENCE OF WITNESSING THE DESTRUCTION OF GRAVESTHE EXPERIENCE OF WITNESSING THE DESTRUCTION OF CULTURAL PROPERTYSome people spoke about feeling powerless when other aspects of cultural heritage were destroyed or interfered with.Sand quarrying and road building in our region have often damaged Aboriginal burial places. When Aboriginal communities have reported these, it has sometimes been hard or impossible to get action to rescue endangered graves.6.106.11ABORIGINAL VALUES AND ISSUES WITH ARCHAEOLOGYIn this section, ‘numbers’ 1, 2 and 3 describe some important Aboriginal values and practices that are often ignored, downplayed or contradicted by archaeology. Then ‘numbers’ 4, 5 and 6 discuss conflicts between Aboriginal people and archaeology. Finally, ‘number’ 7 offers an obvious solution.1. ABORIGINAL IDENTITY AS DEFINED BY ABORIGINAL PEOPLEMany people spoke about the tendency of archaeologists to use the results of their study to define Aboriginal identity and origins. Aboriginal people reject these definitions.Auntie Polly and Granny Nellie Johnson always said that Aboriginal people came from here. Auntie Lucy said that to us too. And I remember an old Clever Man said that Aboriginal people were made from the mud. That’s how Aboriginal people said that the land is our Mother: because we came from the mud. They would have been the first people on this island [Australia], the people that was made from the mud.Elsie Jones (Wilcannia,1985) I reckon the Dreamtime stories are true. I’ve never heard from Dreamtime stories where Aboriginal people inhabited any other country.Willy Riley (Wilcannia, 1986) Kooris got a spiritual feeling, we know we come from this land, we don’t have to prove it. White people have a great insecurity about where they come from. Kooris don’t have that We don’t have to prove it. We know. Monica Morgan (Cumeragunja,1986)I want to highlight this here: we never came here from Asia. Aboriginal people have been here all the time, they never came here from anywhere else.Alice Kelly (Balranald,1985)We don’t have to prove anything – we know we’ve been here since the beginning of time. Maureen O’Donnell (Broken Hill,1985)6.126.13I don’t need to be convinced about how long we’ve been here - I think we’ve always been here.I think most of us know how we used to live. That information’s been passed down. Herbie Pettit (Robinvale,1985)I think Aboriginal people belong here.Lottie Williams ( Pooncarie, 1985) I believe in our Dreamtime stories.Phillip Kerwin (Wilcannia, 1988)I think Aboriginal people were always on this island. It was gifted to them. They say there’s a God - well, it must’ve been given to them by God.Ethel Edwards (Wilcannia,1987)Aboriginal people were the first people on earth. And people come from this land, people born and lived on this land, and went to other lands, not other lands and come here. The Mungo woman is absolutely Australian. Aboriginal. The Dreamtime means a lot. And that Mungo woman is the mother of us all. She’s our link - she’s our vital link with this land. I believe that she is the ancestor of the Mathi Mathi people. We are from here, this is the first land on earth. Australia. Aboriginaland. That’s all I want to say about that.Mary Pappin (Balranald,1986)Lake Mungo is like a dried-up lake now, but I can imagine it would have been a beautiful place thousands of years ago. From the size of it, it would have been enough to support generations of our people. Philip Kerwin (Wilcannia, 1988) It’s amazing how strong the Dreamtime is today.Patsy Quayle (Dareton, 1985)I believe Aboriginal people were always here, too.Mick Harris (Griffith, 1987)Aboriginal people are the ones who establish their own identity and links.Wayne Atkinson (Melbourne, 1986)6.146.15As far as we’re concerned, we’ve been here from time immemorial, and we maintain we’re the oldest living culture on earth. I don’t know of any Aboriginal people whose stories of creation come from another country. The stories of coastal people have their ancestor spirits coming out of the sea. The ones in inland Australia have them just appearing in different places and different times. They’re our ancestors who came from our country, and that’s why the ties are so strong, and that’s why it’s our business - it’s our history. Barbara Flick (Wilcannia, 1988) Both my parents said never to touch burials. And also my grandfather, Harry Mitchell, said the same thing about burials. We have a responsibility to take care of the graves of ancestors. Mum and Dad, Grandmother and Grandfather, handed this down. And I intend going on with it in the hope that my children and grandchildren will follow in the same way, by respecting the heritage and culture of our forefathers. Dorothy Lawson (Dareton, 1991) In the old days, they all had their own laws, and each tribe had its own ideas, its own laws - they were different.Ethel Edwards (Wilcannia, 1987)‘Aboriginal’ means ‘original people.’ The original people of that country. You see, every country’s got original people. And we are the Aboriginal people of this country - the original people.Johnny Quayle (Wilcannia, 1987)This is our country. I believe in Dreamtime. I probably feel more strongly about Dreamtime than anything, more than in God-creation.Maxine Kirby (Griffith, 1987)The old people had laws and rules, and everyone had to keep them. And they passed that on to us. We were taught to respect all those laws and rules.Elsie Jones, (Wilcannia, 1985)It doesn’t matter where we came from. The important thing is that we’re here.Patrick Lawson (Dareton, 1991)2. WHAT THE OLD PEOPLE TAUGHT ABOUT BURIAL SITES AND HUMAN REMAINSThe old people laid down the law6.166.17Forty or fifty years back, if you broke Aboriginal law, they’d kill you. I was taught the law when I was a kid, by my father, Archie Johnson. He told me a lot, what he knew, and he told me never to forget it, to respect it. My mother, Gertie Johnson, told me a lot about it too.Ronnie Johnson (Murrin Bridge, 1987)We were taught that touching burials was total taboo.Kelly Koumalatsos (Melbourne,1985) Of course it’s wrong to touch the dead. Elizabeth Hunter (Wilcannia, 1985) Now, you take the whitefellas’ law. If you break it, you gotta expect to be punished for it. Well, they’re breaking our law [by removing the remains of our ancestors] and they’re not being punished for it. They’re forcing their law on us. I reckon there’s got to be an understanding between the two. Our law is the strongest one, I reckon. I reckon it’s stronger than whitefellas’ law. They don’t respect our law at all.Roddy Smith (Dareton, 1986)In the old days, there was very strong Aboriginal laws about burials. And they’re still strong, to me.Irene Mitchell (Dareton,1985) The old people reckoned it’s no good to go near burials or disturb them.Jim Whyman (Wilcannia, 1985)It’s not right to dig humans up.Amy Quayle (Wilcannia,1985)About burials: Nana Milly Mitchell always told us not to touch them. That was the law.I think about them things a lot, what our grandmother told us. You’ve got to respect them laws.Daphne Hall (Broken Hill, 1985)Aboriginal law is not just for the experts, it is for everybody and it is expressed in everyday language.When Aboriginal people today talk about ‘What the old people believed’ or what is ‘right’, ‘wrong’, ‘no good’, ‘not right’ or ‘taboo’, they are talking about this oral tradition of law.Next >